Cé hé Seán O'Sullivan?

Man in his native habitat - Seán O'Sullivan about to enjoy a Pint of Plain at the Three Fiddles.

So today I'm with Seán O'Sullivan, sitting at The Three Fiddles - so Seán, tell me a little bit about yourself, where are you from and how did you end up in Prague?

Originally I'm from Dublin, and I ended up in Prague in a rather roundabout way, like I'm sure so many others have. I had been working in EU affairs and had been posted to Belfast consequent to the Good Friday Agreement, but my wife, Kathy, refused to join me there so I applied for a job as Pre-Accession Adviser to the Ministry of Finance here. I started in July 2002 and Kathy joined me in August 2002, just before the floods. I reckon she brought them! The contract was for two years until the Czechs had been successful but as I had the opportunity to retire early and as we both loved Prague so much and felt at home we decided to put our roots down.

We were in an apartment in Palmovka when the floods came. We had a penthouse apartment which happened to be just above the flood line. We had heard a lot of commotion in the street that first night, police sirens and loudspeakers blaring, police banging on every door but we had no idea what was going on as we had no Czech. So we just turned the lights off and went to bed!

So that was your introduction to Prague. And then it took quite a long time for the city to get back together.

Yes, the metros were closed and tram services disrupted. The Ministry of Finance building was on Letenska and had to be shut down for months. All of their computer and electronic communication equipment was situated in the basements, and everything was wiped out. I continued working with my Czech assistant from restaurants and pubs above the flood line! It took something like five months to get back to normal.

And what was your job in the Ministry? What were you advising about, or is it confidential?

Basically my job was to help the Czech Republic in general and the Ministry of Finance in particular to meet the particular requirements set by the European Commission for the Candidate Countries. Each Czech ministry was appointed an adviser as the centralised arrogance of the Commission could not accept that the aspiring states could meet the conditions themselves. They could not be trusted! So existing Member States were required to second experts who would then arrange for colleagues to visit and give relevant presentations on correct procedures. I rapidly came to realise that the Czechs were perfectly capable of doing all the necessary preparations for themselves so I became something of a poacher, rather than a gamekeeper! Although I had been warned not to do this I arranged for Czech colleagues to visit Irish ministries, and get first hand knowledge of how to operate. I still had to organise visiting 'experts' to give presentations, but didn't find it that productive. The Irish Civil Service (up to that time anyway) followed the British system of 'the gifted amateur'. This was a Victorian expression which supposed that anyone with a 'classical' education was fit to carry out any administrative job, so ironically real specialists were mistrusted!

Anyway, I organised a number of seminars and presentation here in Prague, but each time I would meet the visitors in some suitable hostelry the night before and beseech them to ensure, in their presentations that they spoke slowly, clearly and did not use jargon (the Czechs were quite proficient in English and rarely needed interpreters). The usual response I got was, 'ah Sean, no worries, sure, we'll do that'. And invariably they would start off well the following day but rapidly forget the pledges they had solemnly given over beer!

I really enjoyed the job however and following the success, in May 2004, of the Czech Republic being allowed to join(!) I continued to the end of that year when I was able to take early retirement and remain in this beautiful city.

And what would you say in terms of cultural differences between living in Prague and living in Dublin?

The cultural differences were quite sharp. We found that the Czechs were quite hardworking, honest people, but they were not friendly in the way that the Irish are friendly, or even over familiar. When we bought our house in Veleslavin we thought we would do the Irish thing, and throw a house-warming party. As well as friends we invited our new Czech neighbours. Although the latter were living in the area for many years they hardly knew each other, just exchanging a 'dobrý den' whenever they might meet on the street. Well, when with us they exploded into long and obviously fascinating exchanges with each other, but as it was all in Czech we were completely baffled! The Irish, on the other hand would be very forward, and 'in your face', dropping in unannounced for a cup of tea or a gossip.

The Ministry had asked me, out of interest, to develop a thesis on the differences and similarities between us. I had initially supposed that there would be many similarities, centuries of oppression by bigger neighbours etc. but I got quite a shock when I did some research. In the early nineteenth century the Czechs with their Národní obrazení (national revival) developed their Slavic sense of nationalism through revival of their culture and language as a defence and a barrier against the prevailing Germanic scene. But it was largely peaceful. The Irish, on the other hand, while developing a 'Celtic' consciousness as their barrier against 'Britishness' were busy losing their language and engaging in the occasional armed revolt. Yes, we had Yeats, Lady Gregory, Synge, the Abbey Theatre and all that but we had always retained an unquenchable  fighting spirit.

And so now you are head of the Wild Geese Society of Bohemia.

Actually no, the Society doesn't operate like that, it is more like a collective:it has neither president nor committee (So, sorry, we have no vacancies for President!). It is a collection of enthusiasts who, within an overall framework of cultural and historical events, organise things which are of interest to themselves, and hopefully to others. It seems to work well and we have undertaken a wide range of events in 2024, some in conjunction with CIBCA. Not charging for events means that we can run a much simpler ship, so as long as the interest is maintained we will continue.

So when did the Society start and what gave you the idea?

Well, my interest in history and related culture blossomed when I retired, and had the chance to escape work obsessions. I had not taken history as a subject in my Leaving Cert (Irish school graduation) because my mother could not have afforded the expensive European history book required (there was no financial help towards education then). As a typical teenager it probably would have been wasted on me at the time anyway! Living in Prague I quickly became interested in Czechia's very interesting history as essentially the battleground of Europe, and read up everything I could find on the subject. That is when I started coming across the many historical links between our two countries, particularly with the Wild Geese who first started coming to Europe after the Battle of Kinsale (1601). The Thirty Years War (1618-1648) was a major event all over Europe but primarily in Czechia and surrounding countries. My interest exploded when a former Ambassador, Alison Kelly, introduced me to a Czech artist (Josef Ryzec) whose family legend claimed that they were descended from an Irish soldier who fought in that war.  I helped Josef research his family legend and it transpired that he is descended from the Norman-Irish knight Walter Devereux whose claim to fame (or infamy) was that he assassinated Albrecht Wallenstein, generalissimo of the Austrian Emperor's army in Eger/Cheb in 1634 on the orders of the Emperor who had been convinced that Wallenstein had turned traitor and intended joining the Swedish enemy. As a documentary maker in my younger days I planned a film on that event and engaged history departments in universities in Ireland, Sweden, Germany, Austria and of course Czechia. You see, young Walter (who was only nineteen at the time of the assassination) had had a very bad press in central Europe. Wallenstein had wanted to make himself King of Bohemia, and if he had succeeded in joining the Swedish enemy it is likely that the Austrian Empire would have been defeated and the Czechs would have avoided the ensuing three hundred years of Austrian domination. So Devereux has gone down in local history as a mercenary murderer who killed a Czech hero and brought centuries of misfortune on them. I prefer to think of him as a loyal Catholic servant of the Catholic emperor fighting against a Protestant enemy. But, it is an interesting question, so the working title of the documentary was 'Has the Jury Reached a Verdict?' the jury being history students from the various countries sifting through the evidence and agreeing together on the truth. Just when I started selling the concept to the various funding agencies Covid struck and everything shut down. While it remains to be made at least Josef has finished his researches and the Wild Geese hope to publish his work this summer.

Oh yes, getting back to your question, after many years of not contributing my services to the CIBCA committee (the buggers never let me!) I saw a certain synergy in combining forces with them, mischievously querying what the second C in CIBCA meant, was it just drinking sessions and pub quizes? Despite being a cheeky bugger they nicely allowed me to start organising various events, some historical and others based on the old Irish festivals. I have a particular bugbear about organisations, political, religious and so on and after a year of committee membership I wanted to try a new way of doing things. I have long regarded Lenin's maxim, 'From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs' as a good way to live life and this is what led to the concept of running the Wild Geese Society as a collective. Mar a dearfá, ní neart go chuir le chéile.

You're obviously quite interested in history. Do you think, in today's modern era of gadgets and Tik-Tok and Instagram and everything else, are the teenagers of today going to be interested in history? Is it losing its relevance in society?

Hopefully not, but I'm afraid you are right. Even the older generations no longer seem that interested, or realise that we can, and should, learn a lot from history. What's happening around the world today shows that we don't seem to be learning from history at all. Look at what's happening in the Middle East, in Ukraine, even in the USA. So maybe it should be no great surprise if the young say 'ah, why should we care?' But they certainly should, because history not only has lessons to teach us about the world around us but indeed about ourselves as well. For example, where do we come from? What makes us tick? I much regret myself when, as a much younger man I passed up the opportunity to quiz elderly relatives about the family history. Now when I look at Josef Ryzec and see what he has achieved I am frankly envious.

Would you subscribe to the belief that intrinsically all humans are the same and we all have the same needs and wants, and it's just politicians who manipulate us into believing certain things and that that changes us or society?

I'm glad you say that, and I hope that you think like that as well because that's how I think. Yes, I look at the way that we get maneuvered into a world of black and white, conflict and strife. Us and Them. I like to reflect on two little villages in south Wicklow separated by a hill from each other, Tinahely and Shillelagh. Sports matches between them, in football, hurling etc, become like World War Three! They hate each other and there are reports that referees thought to favour one side over the other get beaten up and locked in the boot of their car. Yes, it happened! It seems that we as a society can only unite when we can identify an enemy to point to and hate. Can I suggest that we should always walk a mile in our enemy's shoes so that we can better understand him. Then of course if he remains an enemy at least you are a mile away and still have his shoes.

So would you say you are optimistic about the state of the world at the moment?

 I'm not at all optimistic. It's funny, I always enjoyed sitting in a pub discussing how to fix the world over a few pints. It always seemed to be the thing to do, but experience and advancing years have taught me that I would never be able to fix it. I still enjoy sitting in a pub drinking beers but have given up on the unrealistic ambitions. For after all, at the end of the day all we can do is to try to make ourselves better humans and do what we can to make our own little world a better place.

All right, very good. Seán O’Sullivan, thank you very much. We’ll leave it there.